Blu Ray or HD DDV: which is winning?

[Philosofy]

I hear the PS3 launch isn't going as well as hoped, and, IIRC, Blu Ray has a lot riding on the PS3. I've also hear there are a lot more HD DVD titles available (at least at local Blockbusters.) So, is HD DVD (the format with less storage space) winning?

[geko29]

It is, indeed, largely due to Sony's many screwups, delay after delay, and the abysmal quality of initial BD releases (some of which looked WORSE than SD DVDs of the same title). They HAVE gotten better, and the best discs now equal HD DVDs in quality, but the frequency of misses is still a little higher.

There's some more details in my post over at TCR (http://www.tcrebel.com/viewtopic.php?t=16481&start=42), but that's the basics.

[Lord_Skywalker]

Another big problem for Blu Ray is disc price point. I just bought a PS3 and went into a target to check out the BD selection. All but two of the movies were $29.99 and the other two were $19.99. The two that were cheaper were 'The Fifth Element' and 'Sleepy Hollow'. I'm not spending that much on a movie.

Meanwhile, the HD movies right on the next shelf were all averaging $19.99 or $24.99 at the worst.

[Otto]

HD-DVD is winning by a large margin. This is for a lot of reasons, of course, you can't blame it on any specific reason.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/ is a good site to keep track of relative sales for the two.

BluRay might make some headway as a data format if they can get burners available fast and cheap, but I think that HD-DVD is a lock for the video market.

The PS3 flopping hurt BluRay a lot. Interestingly, Microsoft actually did something right for once by making the HD-DVD addon drive for the 360 separate. It's USB and works with PC's, and so has seen a large amount of sales. This also gets the HD-DVD format into the computer arena early, which will speed adoption.

[Lord_Skywalker]

On a side note, the price point of the BluRay discs have finally pushed me into getting a Netflix account.

[retrodog]

I came this || close to buying a HD DVD player last night for my 360. Now that I know they will work on the PC as well, I just might pick one up this weekend.

Anybody using one like that. Oh, and they come with King Kong for free.

[Otto]

I came this || close to buying a HD DVD player last night for my 360. Now that I know they will work on the PC as well, I just might pick one up this weekend.

Anybody using one like that. Oh, and they come with King Kong for free.
Might start reading about how to do it here: http://uneasysilence.com/archive/2006/11/8303/

Basically, with XP, you just need to install drivers and a player that will play the HD-DVD disks.

You can also disassemble it and mount the drive internally to a PC if you have a mini-ATA adapter: http://www.hackaday.com/2006/11/13/xbox-hd-dvd-rom-on-mac-and-pc/

[retrodog]

Might start reading about how to do it here: http://uneasysilence.com/archive/2006/11/8303/

Basically, with XP, you just need to install drivers and a player that will play the HD-DVD disks.

You can also disassemble it and mount the drive internally to a PC if you have a mini-ATA adapter: http://www.hackaday.com/2006/11/13/xbox-hd-dvd-rom-on-mac-and-pc/
Will the 360 actually put out 1080P with the HD DVD player, or is there a HDMI interface from the player and the 360 just controls the unit? Or will it only do 1080i?

[Otto]

Will the 360 actually put out 1080P with the HD DVD player, or is there a HDMI interface from the player and the 360 just controls the unit? Or will it only do 1080i?
I do not have one myself. However, my research suggests the following:
- An update last fall added 1080p support for both games and movies to the 360.
- It will indeed output 1080p from the HD-DVD, but via VGA only. With Component you only get 1080i.
- It will do 1080p for games or movies via Component or VGA.
- The 360 lacks HDMI, so it will not do 1080p digitally.

[retrodog]

I do not have one myself. However, my research suggests the following:
- An update last fall added 1080p support for both games and movies to the 360.
- It will indeed output 1080p from the HD-DVD, but via VGA only. With Component you only get 1080i.
- It will do 1080p for games or movies via Component or VGA.
- The 360 lacks HDMI, so it will not do 1080p digitally.
Thanks for that info. I picked one up after work today but have been busy with social activities for the evening. I plan on setting it up tomorrow. Guess I'll have to download updates for my 360 if they don't come with the drive, as it's still got the original SW/FW that it came with... back during release.

[Marc]

- It will indeed output 1080p from the HD-DVD, but via VGA only. With Component you only get 1080i.
- It will do 1080p for games or movies via Component or VGA.
So it won't do 1080p for movies from the HD-DVD via Component. Does that mean that downloaded (rented) HD movies could be in 1080p and play via Component?

Not that it matters to me personally since my old CRT RPTV only goes up to 1080i, but I can wish for the future. :)

[BrettStah]

According to the following website, it looks like an updated version of the Xbox 360 hardware is being developed that has an HDMI port on it:
http://www.xbox-scene.com/xbox1data/sep/EEylpyZkVpwzemjZKk.php

[Man In Black]

Why is it that so many HD DVD's out now are of really craptastic movies?

[retrodog]

Why is it that so many HD DVD's out now are of really craptastic movies?
Good question.

The King Kong DVD came with the HD DVD 360 drive. It's pretty good. Well parts are anyway.

[Otto]

So it won't do 1080p for movies from the HD-DVD via Component. Does that mean that downloaded (rented) HD movies could be in 1080p and play via Component?
I'm not certain (again, I do not have one and probably won't get one), but I believe that this is correct from what I read. Except that they don't have any downloadable movies available in 1080p. I think.

[stevel]

Movies aren't in an "i" or "p" format. That's up to the hardware.

[Marc]

Movies aren't in an "i" or "p" format. That's up to the hardware.
Really?

I got the impression that it depended on the encoding. In the case of SDTV, I thought the difference was whether it was made with two 240-line (interlaced) fields versus one 480-line (progressive) frame.

I know that when I make a DVD using Pinnacle Studio, it gives me an option to make it using progressive frames rather than interlaced, so I thought that it would have some net effect in the resulting data stream.

[Dave]

LG just announced the Super Multi Blue Player (http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2007/01/lg_electronics.php) at CES. It will reportedly support both formats, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray for a mere $1199. Also, reportedly Warner is going to introduce "Total HD" disks that will work in both players. Should be interesting to see if this will save Blu-Ray.

[doom1701]

Why is it that so many HD DVD's out now are of really craptastic movies?

I was at a number of stores today, and stopped to take a look at what "next gen dvd" movies they had. The one that jumped out at me? Nacho Libre. I know nothing about the movie, but I have to admit, when I think "What movie would I like to see in perfect HD clarity, no matter what the format?", Nacho Libre is nowhere on my list.

As for the format war, my money is on HD DVD. This is betamax all over again--the world versus Sony.

[mercurial]

LG just announced the Super Multi Blue Player (http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2007/01/lg_electronics.php) at CES. It will reportedly support both formats, HD-DVD and Blu-Ray for a mere $1199. Also, reportedly Warner is going to introduce "Total HD" disks that will work in both players. Should be interesting to see if this will save Blu-Ray.

My assumption is, in 2-3 years, these players and the multi-format disk/disk packs will be cheap enough that format war will be irrelevant*, much like the current DVD+/-R/RW/RAM drives for PCs/stand-alone recorders have made that format war irrelevant*.

*and by irrelevant, I mean 99 times out of 100 you won't care the format but you'll still get bit on the ass that 1% of the time by some piece of equipment that doesn't like one particular disc in format A which it is supposed to play but works fine with every other disc in format A you've ever tried. Typically, this will be when you have a large group of non-technical people over and are trying to show them the wonders of the technology...

[retrodog]

I was at a number of stores today, and stopped to take a look at what "next gen dvd" movies they had. The one that jumped out at me? Nacho Libre. I know nothing about the movie, but I have to admit, when I think "What movie would I like to see in perfect HD clarity, no matter what the format?", Nacho Libre is nowhere on my list.

As for the format war, my money is on HD DVD. This is betamax all over again--the world versus Sony.
Except the tapes were different sizes. The discs on these new DVD things are all the same size and making multi-format players & recorders have already proven to be not that big of a problem. Like as in -R vs. +R.

[doom1701]

Except the tapes were different sizes. The discs on these new DVD things are all the same size and making multi-format players & recorders have already proven to be not that big of a problem. Like as in -R vs. +R.

The tape size thing was minimal. Yeah, there are some dual format players on the horizon, but there's a risk of Sony throwing a hissy fit about them, and they'll be more expensive than a single format player. DVD's didn't take off until the players hit the price point for the common man, and the common man isn't going to be thinking "I can get an HD-DVD player for $50, or a dual format for $100--I should think to the future and get the dual format."

Of course, that begs the question, "Will any HD format take off?"

(And, as an aside, is there really any difference between a written -r and +r? I always believed that it was the writing technology that differed, but the finished disc was pretty much the same from either format--so there's no technological difference needed on the player.)

[mercurial]

(And, as an aside, is there really any difference between a written -r and +r? I always believed that it was the writing technology that differed, but the finished disc was pretty much the same from either format--so there's no technological difference needed on the player.)

I'm almost positive that they have different optical characteristics.

[Marc]

And, as an aside, is there really any difference between a written -r and +r?
I don't remember the details any longer, but there was feature touted by DVD+RW something like where you could put some video on there and play it on + players just fine without needing to finalize the disc and then be able to add more to the disc later on without needing to erase the disc and start over.

Wasn't it also the case that DVD-R was the primary - format whereas DVD+RW was the primary + format in the beginning?

I'm still not big on the rewritable discs, even at this point. I've got a few DVD-RAM and about half a dozen DVD+RW discs, but almost everything I've got is CD-R or DVD-R.

In terms of BluRay, their burnable discs (I forget if they're rewritable) hold 25GB, which is 67% more than HD-DVD.

[retrodog]

The tape size thing was minimal. Yeah, there are some dual format players on the horizon, but there's a risk of Sony throwing a hissy fit about them, and they'll be more expensive than a single format player. DVD's didn't take off until the players hit the price point for the common man, and the common man isn't going to be thinking "I can get an HD-DVD player for $50, or a dual format for $100--I should think to the future and get the dual format."

Of course, that begs the question, "Will any HD format take off?"

(And, as an aside, is there really any difference between a written -r and +r? I always believed that it was the writing technology that differed, but the finished disc was pretty much the same from either format--so there's no technological difference needed on the player.)
Excuse me, Mr. President. That is not entirrrrrrrrely accurate.

The tape size was not the determining factor. The storage capacity was though, and the fact that the Beta thing cost a little extra to pay royalties to Sony. The big difference, however, was the storage capacity of the standard tape sizes. And that was L-750 (5 hrs.) vs. the T-120 (6 hrs.). Just about everyone at the time was thinking that they'd get a whole extra hour with VHS. They were even marketed that way. And yes, that's 20% extra for about the same price. But not only that, as many people didn't have HBO or Showtime at the time, the standard length of a movie was 2 hours. So the T-120 would support a full three movies. But the standard Beta would not. Even though the beta was a little better quality, this all happened in the transitionary years where quality was only little ember at the time. It would have more of an impact now but not so much back then. The quality was the main thing that allowed beta to hold on for as long as it did. But it was just an inevitable outcome.

[stevel]

I got the impression that it depended on the encoding. In the case of SDTV, I thought the difference was whether it was made with two 240-line (interlaced) fields versus one 480-line (progressive) frame.

I know that when I make a DVD using Pinnacle Studio, it gives me an option to make it using progressive frames rather than interlaced, so I thought that it would have some net effect in the resulting data stream.
Broadcast SDTV is sent in interlaced form and the TV either displays it interlaced or uses a buffer to display it progressively.

As far as I know, DVDs are always stored as complete (progressive) frames. The reason for doing interlacing is to reduce bandwidth requirements. I suppose it's possible that DVD recordings can be stored in an interlaced format, but I can't quite see how that would work with MPEG2.

1080p is a high bandwidth format and requires special care in designing circuits for it. Until mid last year, there were no TVs which could accept 1080p (and no consumer devices that output it.) A TV that properly deinterlaces 1080i/60 (such as my Sony KDS-R60XBR1) presents an image that is indistinguishable from a 1080p/30 input. Where you can get an advantage with 1080p is with 1080p/60 which looks much smoother, but is twice the data rate of 1080p/30.

[geko29]

Why is it that so many HD DVD's out now are of really craptastic movies?

You'd have to define "craptastic" for me. Do movies like:

Casablanca
Batman Begins
The Thing
Goodfellas
The Bourne Supremacy
The Sting
Full Metal Jacket
The Adventures of Robin Hood
Serenity
Grand Prix
12 Monkeys
Mutiny on the Bounty
Training Day
The Searchers
Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory
Animal House
V for Vendetta
Million Dollar Baby
The Interpreter

all qualify as "craptastic"? Cause there's an awful lot of award-winners in there, and several candidates for "best movie ever made". We've got quality releases of movies from 1938 (Adventures of Robin Hood) all the way to 2006 (V for Vendetta), and everything in between. Yes, there are some god-awful movies (Doom, Nacho Libre, House of Wax, Tomb Raider) out on HD, but they have to try to appeal to everybody. Not everyone likes GOOD movies. :) All that aside, there are a bunch of movies that I enjoy that fall somewhere in the middle. Four Brothers, Italian Job, Chronicles of Riddick, Last Samurai, Meet the Parents and The Rundown come to mind, though there are others.

[Otto]

I suppose it's possible that DVD recordings can be stored in an interlaced format, but I can't quite see how that would work with MPEG2.
MPEG2 supports interlaced video just fine. Has a special mode just for it. Instead of encoding frames like it does with progressive video, you can encode fields or frames with interlaced video, whichever is more efficient. You can even switch between the two on a frame by frame basis, if you like, but the entire video will be interlaced on decoding.

A TV that properly deinterlaces 1080i/60 (such as my Sony KDS-R60XBR1) presents an image that is indistinguishable from a 1080p/30 input.
The problem is that TV video is not always 60/29.998. In PAL, it's 50/24 (and some fractions). If it came from film/movie, it's 24 fps (they flash each frame 3 times in the theater to get a 72 hz flicker rate). Converting between all these is not particularly straightforward, and interlacing things can make them even worse.

You're correct that 1080i can be deinterlaced to 1080p, however you cannot discount the original source material either.

[Otto]

LG's new hybrid player ($1200 starting price). Comes out in February. Plays both formats as well as DVD/CD, but does not support iHD functionality on HD-DVD, due to a limitation of the broadcom chipset that does the heavy lifting for the thing.
More pics at the link:
http://www.engadgethd.com/2007/01/07/lgs-bh100-hybrid-blu-ray-and-hd-dvd-player-1-199/

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2007/01/1.07.07.lg_superblue_pressshot.jpg

They also announced a Computer version of the same thing. SATA, before January ends, $1200.
Also, this drive will support all iHD functionality from HD-DVD titles, whereas their set-top box will not. This is software implemented stuff, basically.
Also, this is a BluRay or DVD/CD writer, but it will not write HD-DVD.
Link: http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/09/lgs-hybrid-blu-ray-hd-dvd-standalone-drive-coming-soon/

http://www.engadgethd.com/media/2007/01/lg_supermultiblue_ggw-h10n.jpg

[Otto]

Proof that HD-DVD will win this format war:

Sony is not allowing porn (http://www.sgknox.com/2007/01/11/no-porn-on-blu-ray/) to be released on BluRay.

That tears it. BluRay is officially dead.

[Mysteryman]

Proof that HD-DVD will win this format war:

Sony is not allowing porn (http://www.sgknox.com/2007/01/11/no-porn-on-blu-ray/) to be released on BluRay.

That tears it. BluRay is officially dead.

I saw this article elsewhere and this was my exact thought.

[Marc]

Does Sony not understand that a boon porn was to the videotape and DVD markets?

Okay, so Sony is officially stupid.

[mercurial]

Okay, so Sony is officially stupid.

Yes, and this just in, oxygen is good for breathing!

[Turtleboy]

I think Blu-Ray will win.

Why? I bought an HD-DVD player. it's right next to my SACD player (which I use all the time, even though it's a dead or dying format).

[Philosofy]

I think Blu-Ray will win.

Why? I bought an HD-DVD player. it's right next to my SACD player (which I use all the time, even though it's a dead or dying format).


But I bet you're watching porn in HD.

[geko29]

I think Blu-Ray will win.

Why? I bought an HD-DVD player. it's right next to my SACD player (which I use all the time, even though it's a dead or dying format).

The difference with SACD is its competitor, DVD-A, was ALSO an abject failure. High-rez multichannel audio that you have to listen to in your living room just doesn't have a wide audience in the age of 200,000 songs in your pocket.

However, your living room is already the accepted and most convenient place to watch movies 90% of the time, so HD/BD don't have that hurdle to overcome. And the product (HiDef movies) IS something that people do/will want and be willing to pay for. This pretty much guarantees that at least one of the formats will (eventually, like DVD) be a rousing success. It's even possible that both will survive, what with LG's BD/half-an-HD player and Warner's hybrid discs coming out this year blurring the lines.

But if only one is to survive/flourish, my money's still on HD-DVD. Sony has just fucked up WAY too many times in way too many areas to bring it back now. Despite Fox's chairman claiming that average PS3 owners buy 6 BDs of Fox movies PER WEEK (funny, Fox only has 16 titles TOTAL), BD can't even come close to touching HDs average annualized attach rate of 28 movies per player. Obviously many people are buying more than that (I'm about to submit an Amazon order that will bring me up to 39 titles in a little over 3 months--an AAR of about 150), and many are buying less, but that's a strong average overall.

[WinBear]

Do people really want high definition porn that shows every flaw?

[ClutchBrake]

Do people really want high definition porn that shows every flaw?

Depends. Generally speaking I don't even want to see standard definition American porn. The women aren't that attractive and I am not a fan of bleached blonde hair and bottom dollar plastic surgery.

European and Eastern European porn is where it's at. Attractive women with their natural hair and bodies.

[Mysteryman]

Do people really want high definition porn that shows every flaw?

Believe it or not, I do. :)

Flaws are real. Real is sexy.

Some people like a little fantasy with their reality. I like a little reality with my fantasy.

[Marc]

You're misinterpreting the comment...

Despite Fox's chairman claiming that average PS3 owners buy 6 BDs of Fox movies PER WEEK

That's 6 BluRay discs nationwide.

:D

[aleajactaest]

Excuse me, Mr. President. That is not entirrrrrrrrely accurate.

The tape size was not the determining factor. The storage capacity was though, and the fact that the Beta thing cost a little extra to pay royalties to Sony. The big difference, however, was the storage capacity of the standard tape sizes. And that was L-750 (5 hrs.) vs. the T-120 (6 hrs.). Just about everyone at the time was thinking that they'd get a whole extra hour with VHS. They were even marketed that way. And yes, that's 20% extra for about the same price. But not only that, as many people didn't have HBO or Showtime at the time, the standard length of a movie was 2 hours. So the T-120 would support a full three movies. But the standard Beta would not. Even though the beta was a little better quality, this all happened in the transitionary years where quality was only little ember at the time. It would have more of an impact now but not so much back then. The quality was the main thing that allowed beta to hold on for as long as it did. But it was just an inevitable outcome.

The irony of that being that even at the peak of VHS popularity, polling data suggested that less than 30 percent of VHS owners ever used them for recording. The vast majority were use for playback only.

[fake]

Looks like I was right Blue Ray will win.

http://physorg.com/news96627561.html

[Otto]

After Sony started rebranding the PS3 as a BluRay player that can also play games, they actually started selling some of the units. The high price of the unit means that those who buy it are the tech high-end, who can afford both the unit and to buy the discs (though they are relatively few in number for both formats)

Also, I think HD-DVD has had manufacturing issues. The price is higher on the discs (though they're cheaper to produce in theory), because of lack of stock. Don't know what the deal is there.

However, in my opinion, the HD format war is far from over. The total number of player units is not at critical mass yet. The fact that the most common BluRay player is still a gaming box is proof of that, IMO. I mean, from your own article: From January 1-March 31, consumers bought almost 1.2 million high-definition discs...

How many DVD's were sold in that same time frame? Three months, 300 million consumers, and only 1.2 million units sold? Seems low to me.

The first player that has a standalone unit released for under $100 will be when it really takes off. That's when DVD hit big.. That one Xmas almost every single person in the country got a DVD player in their household.

[BrettStah]

I'm going to buy a dual-format player, probably for this Christmas. Then I can't lose. :D

[Otto]

http://news.digitaltrends.com/talkback184.html

Wal-Mart Names HD DVD the Winner
There is one retailer that has the power to call the winner of the protracted Blu-Ray vs. HD DVD fight and that vendor is Wal-Mart. Over the weekend they apparently leaked plans to bring in a massive number of low cost (possibly sub $200) HD DVD players for Christmas.
...
snip
...
What does this Mean?

It means that any studio wanting Wal-Mart’s support after year end had better be selling HD DVD movies. Wal-Mart won’t be promoting Blu-Ray and, after year end, will increasingly focus their marketing on getting people to buy into HD DVD players and the related HD DVD movie from them.

In short, the Blu-Ray aligned studios will now have to either support both formats or risk losing much of Wal-Mart's business and given how material this business is to them, you have to think that an anti-Wall-Mart decision would have a material impact on their bonuses and career longevity. It certainly puts Columbia Pictures, which is owned by Sony, in a particularly uncomfortable position.

So, if this move by Wal-Mart is true , and it appears to be (but we won’t know for sure for a few months yet), the format war is likely over and Wal-Mart has declared the winner.



Edit: This appears to be a prediction only, as evidenced here:
http://www.homemediaretailing.com/news/html/breaking_article.cfm?article_id=10557
Retail behemoth Wal-Mart, heretofore a spectator regarding HD DVD and Blu-ray Disc, is quietly ramping up efforts to overcome its late arrival to the next-generation optical media party.

Bentonville, Ark.-based Wal-Mart is selling the recently reduced $399 Toshiba HD-D1 player ($348 online) and Blu-ray RCA HD V5000 ($450) and Philips BDP900 ($898) in about 750 stores, with movies in both formats available in additional stores, according to a company spokesperson.
...


So Wal-Mart is supporting both HD-DVD and Blu-Ray currently.

[Otto]

And of course, the best article on the topic, IMO:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070423-why-early-high-def-disc-adoption-rates-dont-really-matter.html

Why early high-def disc adoption rates don't really matter
...
Compared to sales of movies on DVD—by far the most popular format—the numbers for the next-generation discs are a mere drop in the bucket. The top selling DVD for the week ending March 30 was Happy Feet, which moved over 4 million units that week alone. For the week ending March 11, Borat was the big winner, and the number two title, Peter Pan, sold 2.2 million discs.

If you do the math on Happy Feet and the Blu-ray version of Casino Royale, the latter title took three months to sell just under 1.5 percent of what Happy Feet was able to sell in its first week. Another dose of perspective: in the seven days after its release on DVD, Borat sold more discs than all HD DVD and Blu-ray titles combined since the launch of two formats last year.
...

1.2 million units in 3 months is nothing by comparison to DVD sales. The HD format war is far from over.

[Pendragn]

I hope HD-DVD wins only because I don't like Sony and hope for them to be unsuccessful.

tk

[Fleegle]

I hope HD-DVD wins only because I don't like Sony and hope for them to be unsuccessful.

tk

+1. QFT

[geko29]

1.2 million units in 3 months is nothing by comparison to DVD sales.

You ain't kiddin'. Borat sold more copies in its first 7 days than all HD DVD and Blu-Ray discs have sold combined since the launch of the formats.

[mercurial]

I hope HD-DVD wins only because I don't like Sony and hope for them to be unsuccessful.

tk

Plus, I HAVE an HD-DVD player .... :D

[Philosofy]

And Blu Ray makes a step forward (Blockbuster is expanding their Blu Ray titles because they outrent HD DVD.

http://mediabiz.blogs.cnnmoney.com/2007/06/18/blu-ray-wins-a-battle-in-the-dvd-format-wars/

[Kiyo]

I'm going to keep buying SD DVDs till the format goes dead, dead, dead, dead. Having said that, I really want HD-DVD to be the successor, though I think we'll most likely see the dual format stuff proliferate more.

[Otto]

And Blu Ray makes a step forward (Blockbuster is expanding their Blu Ray titles because they outrent HD DVD.

http://mediabiz.blogs.cnnmoney.com/2007/06/18/blu-ray-wins-a-battle-in-the-dvd-format-wars/

More of a sign of the death of blockbuster. They've been cutting back all around in an attempt to save money. Movie rentals have dropped way back in recent years, what with pay per view being basically the same price as a rental, and with NetFlix coming into profitability and such. Cable and satellite penetration has gotten to the levels where the rental business is slowly dying.

And while there are more BluRay players out there, they're still virtually all PS3's.

Anyway, the winner is still far from determined. When an HD format reaches sub-$20 levels and the player reaches sub-$100 levels (and can still play SD DVDs), then that format will win. Hands down.

[fake]

Looks like Blue Ray is on the way to victory. Blockbuster sides with Blue Ray

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/17/blockbuster-chooses-blu-ray-is-the-war-over/

[Turtleboy]

Looks like Blue Ray is on the way to victory. Blockbuster sides with Blue Ray

http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/17/blockbuster-chooses-blu-ray-is-the-war-over/



Wow, that's a pretty blatant smeek.

[grondramb]

Wow, that's a pretty blatant smeek.

First degree, willful and premeditated.

On the OP, I wonder what percent of the the target population are like me: A potential early adopter, have the TV to benefit from HD/Bluray but not buying either because of the way the content is divided between the two.

[Turtleboy]

I suspect that neither is going to thrive, in the way DVDs exploded for quite a while, if ever.

People aren't looking to replace their collections again.

[fake]

I suspect that neither is going to thrive, in the way DVDs exploded for quite a while, if ever.

People aren't looking to replace their collections again.

I think it has more to do with the percent of the population that have hdtv's I don't think it is that high yet.

[Turtleboy]

I think it has more to do with the percent of the population that have hdtv's I don't think it is that high yet.

That's true.

And out of the people who do have them, how many of them don't even have any HD signal at all, or think they do and don't know it, or still complain about "the black bars?"

[Philosofy]

Wow, that's a pretty blatant smeek.
Either that, or someone has me on ignore. :) Hiya, Fake! :p

[Otto]

Honestly, I've talked to a lot of people who are sticking with normal DVD because of the simple fact that "upconverting" works well enough for them. Well, that and the high price of both formats.

Like I said, whoever gets the discs below $20 and the player below $100 will win. Simple as that, really.

[Makita]

We have a Sony DVD player which up-converts and it works like a champ for us. I have FAR too many DVD's to re-purchase and it'd take a pretty good set of movies with a cheap player to get me even thinking about it.

[BrettStah]

Honestly, I've talked to a lot of people who are sticking with normal DVD because of the simple fact that "upconverting" works well enough for them. Well, that and the high price of both formats.

Like I said, whoever gets the discs below $20 and the player below $100 will win. Simple as that, really.

If one format's player gets that cheap, I'd guess that the other format wouldn't be far behind.

I'm of the mind that it's smart for me to just wait for a more affordable dual-format player. Any owners of such players would no longer care very much which format wins.

Anyone have any info or educated guesses as to the likely prices for dual-format standalone players for the upcoming holiday season at the end of the year?

[geko29]

Both formats are having major promotions starting July 1:

Blu-Ray is matching the 5 free movies promotion that HD DVD has been running since March 1st. The promo ends September 30th (HD DVDs ends July 31), and applies to all Blu-Ray players, including the PS3.

Toshiba was so pleased that 70,000 standalones sold during the $100 instant rebate promotion (as opposed to the 100,000 that sold in the prior 12 months) that they're making the price drop permanent. As of July 1, MSRP for the HD-A2 is $299, HD-A20 is now $399. HD-XA2 remains $799.

Standalone player marketshare is currently 65/35% HD DVD. Total marketshare including the 360 add-on and every PS3 is 80/20% Blu-Ray. Total marketshare including the 360 add-on and Paramount's estimate of how many PS3s are actully used to play Blu-Rays (20%) is 55/45% Blu-Ray.

Movie sales since inception are currently 59/41% Blu-Ray, with a total of 2.8 million discs sold.

[mercurial]

Wait, there's a 5-free HD-DVD offer? Does that cover the 360 add-on too?

[geko29]

Yes, there's a 5 free HD DVD offer (http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/pdf/rebates/12960.pdf), by mail, from a list of 15 movies. It runs 3/1/07 through 7/31/07 and replaced the 3 free HD DVD offer (http://i.i.com.com/cnwk.1d/pdf/rebates/12370.pdf) that ran from 11/21/06 through 2/28/07. I would expect the promo to be extended starting 8/1, or replaced by another one (perhaps an additonal $100 off, perhaps something else).

No, it does not cover the 360 add-on, as it's a Toshiba promotion. However, if you keep an eye out, some stores (notably Best Buy and Circuit City) are occasionally offering 2 free at the time of purchase (plus King Kong, obviously).

I also expect to see the add-on's price drop sometime in the near future.

[mercurial]

Bummer. The tempation for a PS3 plus the 5 free is mildly strong. I just wish they'd drop the PS3 price like $100 first... :D

[geko29]

No pricedrop in the near future for the PS3, Sony generally waits 18-20 months after release before doing that. Especially since they've lost over $2 Billion in hardware subsidies since release and are expected to lose at least another $1 Billion by the end of the year, at current console prices. Also make sure the promotion is worthwile. The available free HD DVDs were mediocre, IMO, and the free Blu-Rays aren't any better. But here they are:

Movie Choices (you can only pick ONE movie per category)
Category 1- The Guardian, Pearl Harbor, Invincible, Chicken Little

Category 2- Corpse bride, Phantom of the opera, Blazing Saddles

Category 3- Stealth, Resident Evil 2, Underworld Evolution, Stir of Echoes

Category 4- The Italian Job, Black Rain, Babel, Devil's Rejects

Category 5- Kiss of the Dragon, Omen 666, The Transporter 2, Species, Hart's War, The Last Waltz

[fake]

Either that, or someone has me on ignore. :) Hiya, Fake! :p

Ha I don't have you on ignore I just didn't read beyond the first page. You obviously think like me why would I ever put you on ignore.

[mercurial]

No pricedrop in the near future for the PS3, Sony generally waits 18-20 months after release before doing that.

Actually, I seem to reacll our local Video Game Journalist speculating about a price drop this fall.

[geko29]

Actually, I seem to reacll our local Video Game Journalist speculating about a price drop this fall.
It appears it's going to be previewed, at the very least, from July 15-21 (http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/05/ps3-price-slashed-to-499-at-least-at-circuit-city/). So 5 months after the discontinuation of the $499 PS3, we have a sale for a $499 PS3... :p

If it's made permanent, this will be the first time in history that a console has gotten a price cut less than a year (less than 9 months in this case) after launch.

[Otto]

Heh. And it's still virtually impossible to lay hands on a Wii.

Anybody got numbers on the console sales, BTW? PS3 was up to about 3 million last I read, while Wii was over 7 million. XBox 360 was over 10, IIRC.

[geko29]

PS3 has sold 1.5 million in the US, 3.6 million worldwide
360 has sold 6.5 million in the US, 10.1 million worldwide

But the Wii continues to surprise everybody:

3.6 million in the US, 8.8 million worlwide!

And in other news, Sony officially denies a pricedrop for the PS3 (http://news.com.com/Sony+has+no+plans+to+cut+PS3+price/2100-1043_3-6195127.html).

[Skittles]

PS3 has sold 1.5 million in the US, 3.6 million worldwide
360 has sold 6.5 million in the US, 10.1 million worldwide

But the Wii continues to surprise everybody:

3.6 million in the US, 8.8 million worlwide! I'm not sure how old your numbers are, but the 360 is supposed to be between 11 to 12 million, versus the 10.1 figure.

The Wii is expected to overtake the 360, in terms of overall consoles sold, within the next two months.

And in other news, Sony officially denies a pricedrop for the PS3 (http://news.com.com/Sony+has+no+plans+to+cut+PS3+price/2100-1043_3-6195127.html).Unless it comes from Kaz Hirai, it's not final. Bear in mind, the president of Sony also denied PlayStation Home when the first details on it were leaked, and the following week PlayStation Phil unveiled Home. This was because they couldn't announce it early, since they'd promised exclusivity on the announcement to a particular media outlet in advance.

Look at it this way: When Sony was asked about the Circuit City sale, their response was a "We have no comment on the retailer's sales". When Circuit City was contacted about their own advertisement, they offered a No Comment as well. Not a denial. Just a no comment.

Then there's the story from GameDaily Biz, a pretty reputable site, saying that a massive retailer is already prepping for a price cut next week based on information Sony gave them about a retail wide price drop.

I'm not saying you're wrong. Just that the official denial, in the wide scheme of things, isn't a concrete No.

[mercurial]

Of course a lot of folks who HAVE managed to land a Wii are having a bit of... wimorse..

[grondramb]

So, if I only want to rip movies to hard drives for home theater use is there a reason to prefer B;ue Ray or HD?

[Otto]

At present, ripping either BluRay or HD-DVD is difficult and annoying. Also, they're 30-50 gig per movie, so you may need a lot more hard drive space or spend a whole lot of time recompressing.

Stick to normal DVD for ripping, for the time being.

[geko29]

To add to what Otto said, currently both formats are protected only by AACS, which has been effectively bypassed. Sometime in the next few months, Blu-Rays will be shipping with BD+, which requires a Java-based decryption agent to be loaded from the disc and run in the JVM on a fully compliant, non-compromised player. This, of course, will eventually be worked around (even though BDA claims it will stand for at LEAST 10 years ROFL), but it will add another pain in the ass step to ripping a BR disc.

[grondramb]

At present, ripping either BluRay or HD-DVD is difficult and annoying. Also, they're 30-50 gig per movie, so you may need a lot more hard drive space or spend a whole lot of time recompressing.

Stick to normal DVD for ripping, for the time being.

Well that makes it $6 - $10 per movie for storage so that's not gonna be prohibitive... Does it take an extremely long time to rip? I've got a spare PC I can tie up...

[grondramb]

Sometime in the next few months, Blu-Rays will be shipping with BD+, which requires a Java-based decryption agent to be loaded from the disc and run in the JVM on a fully compliant, non-compromised player. This, of course, will eventually be worked around (even though BDA claims it will stand for at LEAST 10 years ROFL), but it will add another pain in the ass step to ripping a BR disc.

Thanks - that pushes me back toward HD. I'm determined to have my video library on a server.

No doubt they can make it painful but such "promises" alway remind of the guys who said their fortress would stand against a million men for a thousand years.

[Otto]

Paramount just adopted HD-DVD and abandoned BluRay.

This means that all of the content for Paramount Pictures, DreamWorks Pictures, Paramount Vantage, Nickelodeon Movies, and MTV Films will be HD-DVD and regular DVD only. No Blu-Ray.

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070820-paramount-adopts-hd-dvd-kicks-blu-ray-to-the-curb.html

http://www.viacom.com/NEWS/NewsText.aspx?RID=1042073

[Otto]

Found this comment on Engadget:
So at our count, Blu-ray has eight studios actively supporting (taking out the two that haven't released a Blu-ray title in months), and HD DVD has 12. So HD DVD actually has more studio support at this point if you factor in the porn studios and smaller studios like HBO and First Look Studios. If you remove these two and add back in Fox and MGM (assuming they'll some day release some more titles on Blu-ray), the two formats are dead even at 10 a piece.

Although now I think the real winner will be online distribution. With more and more television being offered that way (legally too), and compression getting to the point where high quality video can be downloaded in reasonable time periods, I think that people are going to stop buying discs altogether. Might be a few more years, but I'm not certain that a disc format will actually win this format war.

Although Wal-Mart will have sub-$200 HD-DVD players and sub-$20 HD-DVD movies this Xmas, and BluRay has no chance of getting to that low of a price point on either one.. so HD-DVD might take it after all.

[Philosofy]

Interesting, especially since the guy at Best Buy just assured me that Blu Ray had the lead. :)

[geko29]

Every few weeks, The BDA announces that the war is over and Blu-Ray has won. The Best Buy guy was probably just repeating one of their 30 press releases. :)

[scooterboy]

Interesting, especially since the guy at Best Buy just assured me that Blu Ray had the lead. :)
Well isn't that proof that HD-DVD will win?

When plasma TVs first came out, a Best Buy drone told me not to buy one because "the plasma gas eventually leaks out and then you have to get it recharged".

[Otto]

When plasma TVs first came out, a Best Buy drone told me not to buy one because "the plasma gas eventually leaks out and then you have to get it recharged".
...

Wow.

Admittedly, plasmas do wear down over time as the phosphor coatings in the plasma cells lose their luminosity... But modern ones should last about 60k hours or more.

[geko29]

Rumors are now flying that WB is going to return to HD DVD exclusivity as well. If it does happen, expect an announcement as soon as Friday, or as late as CEDIA, which runs September 5-9.

If true, it would be the beginning of the end, IMO. WB has far and away the best releases so far of any studio on either format, and accounts for more than 30% of all HiDef sales with only 17% of the total titles available.

[markz]

I went to a seminar (sales pitch) by HP yesterday. They are going to start offering BR burners in their PCs later this year. Someone asked if they were choosing BR over HD or just starting with BR. The presenter said they are just starting with BR. He said you can burn 50Gb of data to BR disk and only 30Gb to an HD disk, so that is why they are starting there.

[Otto]

Because of the higher capacity, BluRay is superior for data, although HD-DVDs are still cheaper to produce, even in a burnable form.

But for content, HD-DVD is superior. 30 GB is enough to hold the highest definition you'll likely need, and the interactive qualities are easier to work with and more capable (they're adding online components to some of the HD-DVDs now, appearantly). The BD Java stuff is supposedly technically difficult to implement and not as robust.

[geko29]

I went to a seminar (sales pitch) by HP yesterday. They are going to start offering BR burners in their PCs later this year. Someone asked if they were choosing BR over HD or just starting with BR. The presenter said they are just starting with BR. He said you can burn 50Gb of data to BR disk and only 30Gb to an HD disk, so that is why they are starting there.
I can come up with a better reason why they'd start there. There are at least 5-6 Half Height Blu-Ray burners available ($500-600) from a variety of manufacturers. The ONLY HD DVD burner currently available is preinstalled in certain Toshiba laptops and is NOT sold separately. So if they want a >9GB burner, BR is their only choice at the moment.

There's currently only one BD-R drive that can write to dual-layer (50GB discs)--and it costs over a grand, so I doubt if HP is going to start building
them into their systems. Effectively both formats are limited to single-layer (25 or 15GB) discs, which run around $10, vs. $35 for the dual-layer BD-Rs.

[Otto]

A $199 HD-DVD player (Venturer's SHD7000) is coming out soon. Apparently, Wal-Mart has no plans to carry it yet.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6473655.html?nid=2705

Considering that Wal-Mart shot the DVD revolution into high gear by carrying the $99 DVD players back in the day, I'm wondering why they're saying they want tier-one brand name gear now. Trying to change their image? Dunno. A $199 HD-DVD player would skyrocket sales and ensure a format victory, I think.

[BrettStah]

A $199 HD-DVD player (Venturer's SHD7000) is coming out soon. Apparently, Wal-Mart has no plans to carry it yet.

http://www.videobusiness.com/article/CA6473655.html?nid=2705

Considering that Wal-Mart shot the DVD revolution into high gear by carrying the $99 DVD players back in the day, I'm wondering why they're saying they want tier-one brand name gear now. Trying to change their image? Dunno. A $199 HD-DVD player would skyrocket sales and ensure a format victory, I think.
I'm not sure that would ensure a victory - it's sort of a chicken and egg thing... I still think content is king, and when folks realize that the new HD player that they're wanting to buy to go along with their new HDTV will only play some HD discs, but not others, they will tend to wait for (a) all major movie companies to switch to one HD disc format, or (b) a dual-format HD player that's cheap enough to be considered a worthwhile purchase. For example, I'd easily spend $400-500 on a dual-format player, rather than a $200 single-format player.

And I wouldn't be surprised if Sony (and maybe Toshiba) are giving Walmart great deals on their products, on the condition that they don't stock certain products that undercut their products.

[Mysteryman]

I agree that content is king. I also think there aren't enough high def TVs in peoples living rooms yet to make a mass adoption a reality yet.

If I had my choice of which format would win, it would be the recently announced VMD (Versatile Multilayer Disc).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Versatile_Multilayer_Disc

There's only 1 studio and two players so far, but its some fairly decent names. Icon (Mel Gibsons brand) for the studio, and Radio Shack and Costco for the retailing of players.

[geko29]

....and no lossless audio. :( And less disc space than either of the current formats had at launch 1.5+ years ago. :(

No, I'll pass on HD VMD. With low specs, prices no better than HD DVD, and nonexistent studio support, I'm not sure why anybody would want it to win. Unless you're a fan of bollywood movies, that is, which will outnumber American movies on the format by 2.5:1.

As for the Venturer/Walmart thing, there was a Japanese interview published last week that said both Best Buy and Walmart had signed contracts for OEM HD DVD players to be sold under their in-house names (Insignia/Durabrand), and that we should expect them to launch in October for $199. Whether Venturer is involved in this is unknown, but it should be pointed out that the Wal-mart representative was very careful to say "this holiday" and not "this holiday season", and the article was published before Labor day.

[Otto]

I don't think content is king. I think that userbase is king. If the mass public all went out and bought cheap players of one format, then any studio exec would switch to putting out their collection on that format in a heartbeat. Unless they were fond of losing money.

Content follows the marketplace, it doesn't lead it.

[BrettStah]

I don't think content is king. I think that userbase is king. If the mass public all went out and bought cheap players of one format, then any studio exec would switch to putting out their collection on that format in a heartbeat. Unless they were fond of losing money.That's the chicken and egg thing.... will enough people buy a $200 HD-DVD player when they will not be able to play back any HD movies from Sony Pictures, Disney, and 20th Century Fox. Most people don't pay much attention to the studio, except for Disney, but they do know that those studios make a bunch of movies that are very popular. And if they do just a little bit of research, they'll see that big movies/franchises, such as Spiderman, Pirates of the Caribbean, etc., will not play back on their $200 HD-DVD player. So they'll sit and wait for most/all of the studios to go dual-format (not likely), for one format to "win" and most/all studios switch to it (not likely any time soon), or for a dual-format player to come out that's affordable. Of course, what "affordable" means varies from person-to-person, but with the first-generation dual-format LG player already being available for ~$500-600 with the help of a rebate/gift card, it will most likely not be that long (by Christmas of 2008 I would suspect) for entry level dual-format players to be available for the $200-250 price range.

Content follows the marketplace, it doesn't lead it.I'm not so sure about that in all cases. I just don't know if enough of a critical mass of $200 players would sell given the current amount of content available vs. unavailable that would lead to the Blu-ray only studios to switch to dual format or exclusively to HD-DVD.

[Otto]

That's the chicken and egg thing.... will enough people buy a $200 HD-DVD player when they will not be able to play back any HD movies from Sony Pictures, Disney, and 20th Century Fox.
You assume that the average buyer is fully aware of the current HD war and is holding off because of that. People bought DVD players when there were only a few hundred titles available. Hell, they bought them in mass quantities. Why? Because they're not thinking of the titles available right now, they're thinking of future movies. Nobody expects to buy some random movie on a new format right away.

And if they do just a little bit of research, they'll see that big movies/franchises, such as Spiderman, Pirates of the Caribbean, etc., will not play back on their $200 HD-DVD player.
They likely already have these big name franchise flicks on their current DVD player. They're not going to buy them again just for HD-DVD. A few will, but only the technologically literate. They're also not going to care about the studio support, because studio support will change. Also, if the HD player doesn't play their existing DVD's, they're not going to buy it at all.

So they'll sit and wait for most/all of the studios to go dual-format (not likely), for one format to "win" and most/all studios switch to it (not likely any time soon), or for a dual-format player to come out that's affordable.
Nonsense. They know better than that. They know that whatever they buy will end up getting supported. If the format war isn't over pretty soon, then studios will eventually have to support BOTH formats due to installed user base. People will not spend extra on the dual format player. The $199 player will win, and they'll simply not buy the other format. And they'll curse the movies that come out exclusively on the other format, and then simply do without them.

You act as if buying movies is a necessity. People won't spend extra to get the movies they want.. No, they'll spend less and just be satisfied with the movies they *can* watch instead. And the studios that won't convert will lose sales.

Content follows the marketplace, it doesn't lead it.I'm not so sure about that in all cases. I just don't know if enough of a critical mass of $200 players would sell given the current amount of content available vs. unavailable that would lead to the Blu-ray only studios to switch to dual format or exclusively to HD-DVD.
What content is available is irrelevant. Nobody will buy a piece of multi-functional hardware just because it can play Spiderman in HD. The money is made by selling the blades, but people *want* the razor.

No, as long as *enough* content is available on both sides of the war, people will buy the cheap player and then play what they can, until the studios see the benefits of switching to that side.

[grondramb]

I don't think content is king. I think that userbase is king. If the mass public all went out and bought cheap players of one format, then any studio exec would switch to putting out their collection on that format in a heartbeat. Unless they were fond of losing money.

Content follows the marketplace, it doesn't lead it.

I sure hope you are right because I want a $150 USB HD DVD drive, not a $600 Blu Ray stand alone.

[geko29]

I sure hope you are right because I want a $150 USB HD DVD drive, not a $600 Blu Ray stand alone.

How about a $180 USB HD DVD drive (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JHO4L0/ref=amb_link_5514032_/105-6752176-4479637?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1E0RSHH17ZHKX9BF3EPP&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=310460401&pf_rd_i=14220161) with 7 free movies?

[grondramb]

I sure hope you are right because I want a $150 USB HD DVD drive, not a $600 Blu Ray stand alone.

How about a $180 USB HD DVD drive (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JHO4L0/ref=amb_link_5514032_/105-6752176-4479637?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-3&pf_rd_r=1E0RSHH17ZHKX9BF3EPP&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=310460401&pf_rd_i=14220161) with 7 free movies?

I'm not gonna be able to hold out much longer.

[Otto]

Wal-Mart and Circuit City are now selling the Toshiba HD-A2 HD-DVD player for just under $200:
http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20071027-the-sub-200-hd-dvd-player-arrives-multiple-retailers-slashing-prices.html

This is a second gen player (they're up to third gen now) that only does 1080i output, but there you go.

[geko29]

Even better is Sears' Black Friday sale:
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3221/hda3ws2.jpg
HD-A3 (3rd generation) for $170 with 300 and The Bourne Identity in the box, plus the usual 5 free by mail.

[ybrew]

good or bad, I'll be on the road during the black friday sales.

Even with the HD-DVD drive for the xbox, this hda3 is a heck of a deal.

[Otto]

Even better is Sears' Black Friday sale:
HD-A3 (3rd generation) for $170 with 300 and The Bourne Identity in the box, plus the usual 5 free by mail.
True, but I'm trying to find the differences between the HD-A3 and the HD-A2 and I can't. Neither does 1080p, they're both 720p/1080i. You have to step up to the HD-A30 to get 1080p, and even then some reviews say that it's kinda crap at 1080p. I found one place saying that the HD-A2 is actually better for audio, as it can output DTS at 1.5 mbps, where the HD-A3 can only do DD at 640k.

Near as I can figure, the A3 is just replacing the A2 with lower production costs, it's not actually any better. So if you want to avoid crowds on Black Friday and just get one now, it might be worth the $30.

[geko29]

The HD-A3 is a bit faster (like 10%, nothing spectacular). As you mention, it downmixes DD+ and TrueHD to 640kbps DD over optical instead of the 1.5Mbps DTS that the HD-A2 does. This is a marginally bad thing if you have a newer receiver that does not have HDMI. If your reciever is older (particularly if it's made by Sony), it's likely to have a faulty DTS decoder that doesn't behave well with full-bitrate DTS, so the DD640 is a benefit in that case. If you have an HDMI receiver (or no receiver at all), that's all moot. It's also worth mentioning that ALL Blu-Ray players are limited to DD640 over optical (limitation of the format), so it's not actually THAT bad. For reference, DVD uses DD384 for most titles, with a few at DD448.

But the 1080i/1080p thing is marketing gibberish in roughly 97% of cases. The only case where it makes a difference is if you have a 1080p set that actually accepts 1080p AND has a POS deinterlacer. A 1080i signal from 24p content contains every last single bit of information that a 1080p one does. So as long as your TVs deinterlacer works (as opposed to the few that "bob" to 540p and then interpolate to 1080i), there is no difference whatsoever between 1080i and 1080p.

They're both good players though, so you're right that you can't go wrong either way. But for me personally (if I were in the market for another player, which I'm not), $30 savings plus two (additional) free discs in the box would be worth the wait. :)

[Fleegle]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071109/ap_on_hi_te/sony_ceo

Looks like Sony is preparing to lose the war.

[aindik]

I just ordered a laptop from Dell. I upgraded from a DVD+-RW drive to a BluRay Reader/DVD writer. It was only $160 (plus a required processor upgrade, but I was going to get that anyway). That was the cheapest way to get BluRay into my home. Looking forward to trying it out, hooking up my laptop to my TV and receiver. I'll probably end up buying the HD-DVD upgrade to the XBox 360 sooner or later.

[mercurial]

I just ordered a laptop from Dell. I upgraded from a DVD+-RW drive to a BluRay Reader/DVD writer. It was only $160 (plus a required processor upgrade, but I was going to get that anyway). That was the cheapest way to get BluRay into my home. Looking forward to trying it out, hooking up my laptop to my TV and receiver. I'll probably end up buying the HD-DVD upgrade to the XBox 360 sooner or later.

I thought you had a MacBook?

[aindik]

I just ordered a laptop from Dell. I upgraded from a DVD+-RW drive to a BluRay Reader/DVD writer. It was only $160 (plus a required processor upgrade, but I was going to get that anyway). That was the cheapest way to get BluRay into my home. Looking forward to trying it out, hooking up my laptop to my TV and receiver. I'll probably end up buying the HD-DVD upgrade to the XBox 360 sooner or later.

I thought you had a MacBook?

I did. It broke after less than three weeks. I started a long-ass thread about it in Happy Hour. I never called AppleCare about it, which I should do, but I have no confidence that they'll do anything for me other than tell me to screw off (which is what they told me to do at the Apple store). At which point, I'll need to get the thing fixed, either by Apple ($800) or someone else (MacService.com quotes $395, but I need to investigate whether doing that will void the warranty on other stuff).

I bought another laptop because, after the mishap, the wife doesn't trust the MacBook to travel anywhere outside our house, so we needed a laptop that could be brought outside the house without fear (irrational as it may be - that's debatable) of it breaking from, say, a short stop in the car or a dog stepping on it while closed.

[mercurial]

/backs slowly out of the thread


Dude. I know. I was kidding...

[aindik]

/backs slowly out of the thread


Dude. I know. I was kidding...

I don't expect people to follow my life that closely. :)

[mercurial]

/backs slowly out of the thread


Dude. I know. I was kidding...

I don't expect people to follow my life that closely. :)

Actually, I've waiting to see what happened when you called up Apple directly. I'm kinda curious how their vaunted support will play out and your description of the drop kinda blew my mind that it broke so the incident stuck in my memory.

[geko29]

I just ordered a laptop from Dell. I upgraded from a DVD+-RW drive to a BluRay Reader/DVD writer. It was only $160 (plus a required processor upgrade, but I was going to get that anyway). That was the cheapest way to get BluRay into my home. Looking forward to trying it out, hooking up my laptop to my TV and receiver. I'll probably end up buying the HD-DVD upgrade to the XBox 360 sooner or later.

Doesn't the Blu-Ray drive also require a discrete graphics card? The HP I just ordered with an HD DVD drive did (8600M GS, $124), but adding it also tacked on an HDMI output, which is infinitely useful for movie playing, of course.

[aindik]

I just ordered a laptop from Dell. I upgraded from a DVD+-RW drive to a BluRay Reader/DVD writer. It was only $160 (plus a required processor upgrade, but I was going to get that anyway). That was the cheapest way to get BluRay into my home. Looking forward to trying it out, hooking up my laptop to my TV and receiver. I'll probably end up buying the HD-DVD upgrade to the XBox 360 sooner or later.

Doesn't the Blu-Ray drive also require a discrete graphics card? The HP I just ordered with an HD DVD drive did (8600M GS, $124), but adding it also tacked on an HDMI output, which is infinitely useful for movie playing, of course.

It wasn't "required" in the Dell configuration, but I did add one.