The iPhone

[Man In Black]

So, the iPhone was released

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1575743,00.html

[Otto]

Touchscreen. Yuck. I don't see it working well.

[mbklein]

I'm pretty impressed with the video, but there's no way in hell I would buy version 1.0 of this thing.

And two words are a huuuuge turnoff for me: "Cingular Only"

[Mysteryman]

Touchscreen. Yuck. I don't see it working well.

I had that same thought when I saw the touch wheel of the ipod. Keep in mind this isn't for folks with regular mobiles, but rather the smartphone market. Tactile navigation is almost impossible on those too.

[Otto]

A touchwheel is not a touchscreen. Two entirely different things.

All I have to say is that Jobs must be on crack to think a touchscreen phone will actually work. Touchscreen PDA and smartphones already don't work.

[Man In Black]

Interesting article on the lengths Apple went to make sure the iPhone was kept relativly secret until launch.
http://money.cnn.com/2007/01/10/commentary/lewis_fortune_iphone.fortune/index.htm?postversion=2007011009

[aindik]

A touchwheel is not a touchscreen. Two entirely different things.

Word. A touchwheel, you don't have to look at to use.

The point of a touchscreen is that it performs multiple functions with the same physical space. Which is great, unless you'd like to use the device without looking at it. Then, it sucks.

All I have to say is that Jobs must be on crack to think a touchscreen phone will actually work. Touchscreen PDA and smartphones already don't work.

And a touchscreen iPod is an even worse idea than a touchscreen phone.

[amorphis]

All I have to say is that Jobs must be on crack to think a touchscreen phone will actually work. Touchscreen PDA and smartphones already don't work.

Odd, mine works great (Verizon XV6700). Battery life sucks tho.

[Otto]

amorphis: Ever try dialing that XV6700 with one hand? When not looking at it?

It doesn't work as a phone because it cannot be used as a phone. You might be able to use it as a PDA which can make calls, but that's not the same thing. I hate PDAs, but I like cell phones. This thing is not a phone, it's a PDA.

I've got nothing against touchscreens in general (although I prefer them to be bigger and not exposed on a device that I will put into my back pocket and thus sit on), but if a phone doesn't at least have a number pad with hard buttons, then it is a failure as a phone.

IMO, of course.

[Mysteryman]

A touchwheel is not a touchscreen. Two entirely different things.

All I have to say is that Jobs must be on crack to think a touchscreen phone will actually work. Touchscreen PDA and smartphones already don't work.

You're missing my point. Of course I know that the wheel and screen are different, what they share is a lack of tactile points for navigation.

As for one-handing or blind dialing, I made that point specifically that this won't work for either of those, but then neither do TODAYS smartphones. I don't think they are positioning this device to mobile phone users, but rather to mobile media users. This will make a sucky phone, but a pretty decent media device with an wireless network interface with an OS that people are familier and comfortable with. Oh, and it happens to receive and send calls. This thing isn't revolutionary, and it sure as heck won't replace my plain old Motorola E815, but for some folks, its exactly what they are looking for.

[aindik]

You're missing my point. Of course I know that the wheel and screen are different, what they share is a lack of tactile points for navigation.

Apple's touchwheel (assuming we're talking about the old 3G iPod) told us where the center of the wheel was, and where the outer perimeter was. It also didn't have buttons on it - they were above the wheel in recesses of the iPod where they could be felt.

Apple's clickwheel, with buttons (iPods Gen4 and later), tells us where the wheel starts and ends. There is a seam around the circumference that you can feel, so you can tell where the buttons are.

This current thing is a giant screen. Nothing to touch whatsoever.

As for one-handing or blind dialing, I made that point specifically that this won't work for either of those, but then neither do TODAYS smartphones. I don't think they are positioning this device to mobile phone users, but rather to mobile media users. This will make a sucky phone, but a pretty decent media device with an wireless network interface with an OS that people are familier and comfortable with. Oh, and it happens to receive and send calls. This thing isn't revolutionary, and it sure as heck won't replace my plain old Motorola E815, but for some folks, its exactly what they are looking for.

I think the opposite. It's better as a PDA.

It's pretty good as a "media" device, if "media" is limited to things involving your eyes. If you're talking about music, it's going to be a PITA to have to take it out and look at it in order to skip to the next track or to pause or unpause. It should be fun for people to try and navigate it while driving, too.

[Otto]

You're missing my point. Of course I know that the wheel and screen are different, what they share is a lack of tactile points for navigation.
The touchwheel does have tactile points on it. It's also specifically built to sense directional movement only, instead of a freeform sensing mechanism like a touchscreen. You're comparing a type of fruit to some other type of fruit here.

As for one-handing or blind dialing, I made that point specifically that this won't work for either of those, but then neither do TODAYS smartphones. I don't think they are positioning this device to mobile phone users, but rather to mobile media users. This will make a sucky phone, but a pretty decent media device with an wireless network interface with an OS that people are familier and comfortable with. Oh, and it happens to receive and send calls. This thing isn't revolutionary, and it sure as heck won't replace my plain old Motorola E815, but for some folks, its exactly what they are looking for.
But they don't seem to be aiming it at the market you're talking about. It's smaller than any smart phone, and has a limited screen size. It lacks all the PDA-like features, such as text writing and such. No Office compatibility. Only media compatibility will likely be iTunes. Doesn't have 3G functionality, so no live video and such in real time, unless you have a WiFi connection.

Basically, all the features they demoed were directly related to the sorts of things that cell phone users do, not the sorts of things that smartphone/PDA users do.

So I say it's perfectly acceptable to consider it as a cell phone since that's what they seem to be shooting for here. And like you said, this will make a sucky phone.

[Man In Black]

Main drawback I see, is that I want to be able to treat my phone like crap and still expect it to work. I don't want to have to keep it in a fancy case like my iPod, and be all careful with it.

[Otto]

To be fair, people that complain about getting scratches on their iPod's are being more than a little silly, to me. Scratches on gear does not bother me. Just shows that it's been used. My iPod goes in my pocket just like my cell phone does.

[Man In Black]

To be fair, people that complain about getting scratches on their iPod's are being more than a little silly, to me. Scratches on gear does not bother me. Just shows that it's been used. My iPod goes in my pocket just like my cell phone does.

Sure, but enough scratches on the screen (talking 5G here), and it gets hard to read (especially if you watch video), and theres always the chance of cracking the screen and whatnot.

[betamax]

I'm pretty impressed with the video, but there's no way in hell I would buy version 1.0 of this thing.

And two words are a huuuuge turnoff for me: "Cingular Only"

My thoughts exactly. Verizon works well for me so I won't even consider it until I can use it with them.

I think this could be a winner. The stock market seems to think so (+$10 in 2 days). But I'm going to wait at least a year to make sure they get all the battery issues (which Apple seems to be famous for) and major bugs fixed.

Too bad they won't offer an unlocked version like Palm does.

[Otto]

I've used Cingular for years and years. Never had any problems with them. They have better coverage in all the places I go.

[JYoung]

I've used Cingular for years and years. Never had any problems with them. They have better coverage in all the places I go.

Haven't been to LA lately? ;)

Cingular's coverage is decent here but Verizon's is better.

I'd personally like it if they removed the phone part, added a hard drive, beefed up the PIM functions, and allowed it to blutooth to my current cell.
Then I could retire my Palm M500.

[mercurial]

Any bets on what they're going to change the name too? :D

[aindik]

I'm going with "iPod Phone."

[Otto]

Haven't been to LA lately? ;)
Nope. And with any luck, I never will have to go there ever again. Horrible town. Most of California is pretty horrific in general, but LA definitely takes the cake.

I'll stick to the East Coast, thanks. And over here, I get great coverage. Of course, that doesn't stop people from complaining about Cingular even when they're not on the West Coast, but people just like to down on Cingular for, as far as I can see, no reason at all.

[aindik]

Nope. And with any luck, I never will have to go there ever again. Horrible town. Most of California is pretty horrific in general, but LA definitely takes the cake.

I'll stick to the East Coast, thanks. And over here, I get great coverage. Of course, that doesn't stop people from complaining about Cingular even when they're not on the West Coast, but people just like to down on Cingular for, as far as I can see, no reason at all.

Here in the northern portion of the east coast, Verizon is generally considered to have a far superior network to that of Cingular (or Sprint or T-Mobile for that matter).

[Otto]

Here in the northern portion of the east coast, Verizon is generally considered to have a far superior network to that of Cingular (or Sprint or T-Mobile for that matter).
Yes, but that's my point... People will say that sort of thing *everywhere*, only they will substitute whatever their favorite company is instead of Verizon.

But never have I seen any actual proof of any of it. Coverage maps show that they are actually much the same. All people have to go on is their own limited experiences, and generally they limit their cell phone usage to a small number of places. Their home. Their work. Maybe a few others. They don't really know what coverage is like for other people.

[mbklein]

Which is why I would like my choice of hardware on my choice of carriers. I don't hate Cingular, but their coverage isn't so hot in the places I would use it most. Which renders "Cingular only" devices useless for me.

[Otto]

Which is why I would like my choice of hardware on my choice of carriers. I don't hate Cingular, but their coverage isn't so hot in the places I would use it most. Which renders "Cingular only" devices useless for me.
All "Cingular Only" means is that they will get it first. Remember, the Razr was "Cingular Only" for like a year.

And from what I read, the phone itself is GSM, so it'll work with any GSM provider, once they are allowed to sell it. T-Mobile will probably get it first. Verizon is stuck on CDMA though, so it'll be a while (maybe never) before they get it.

[Ryan]

Cingular only, touch screen (scratches/smudges galore!), no high speed data only EDGE.

I think I'll pass.

Why did Apple not include HSDPA?

[pgogborn]

Why did Apple not include HSDPA?
As I recall Apple is looking for a market share of 1% for its phone which I suppose is doable but I reckon when it comes to the UK not having 3G is putting itself at a considerable disadvantage.

Even so I would be tempted (or at least ask Santa Claus) except it will be operating in a "walled garden" (well, in the US at least) - I do not see that being in keeping with the philosophy of Apple type peeps.

[RegBarc]

Looks like it'll be under the banner of AT&T instead of Cingular since the Ma Bell is forcing Cingular to change it's name.

[aindik]

Ma Bell owns Cingular lock stock and barrel now (ever since AT&T (which was SBC) bought Bell South). It's changing the name of its subsidiary to trade on that old brand they still think is valuable.

[RegBarc]

Ma Bell owns Cingular lock stock and barrel now (ever since AT&T (which was SBC) bought Bell South). It's changing the name of its subsidiary to trade on that old brand they still think is valuable.
Correction, the name they thought was valuable. :D

[stevel]

I find this funny. I started with AT&T Wireless, then the name changed to Cingular (though I'm still on a "Cingular Blue" aka AT&T plan), and now it's back to AT&T again.

[Otto]

I read today that it's not called the iPhone anymore, but the "iTouch Mobile" due to the Cisco issues.

For those not in the know, Cisco has had the word "iPhone" trademarked for the last 11 years.

[Lord_Skywalker]

Actually, Cisco acquired the rights to 'iPhone' from Infogear Technology in 2000(I know, I know. It's a technicality). Infogear Technology originally got the trademark back in 1996. I think what's funny about the whole thing is that Apple has been in negotiations with Cisco since 2001 about the 'iPhone' name. Jobs jumped the gun on this. He definitely pissed Cisco off by calling it the 'iPhone' before signing an agreement.

[Weaselboy]

http://digg.com/apple/Default_iPhone_Ripped

http://punani.ws/audio/iPhone.mp3

Checkit..... somebody ripped the iPhone ringtone from the Mac World demo already. Just put it on my RAZR. Nice.

[Ludwig van Jaethoven]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xXNoB3t8vM&

[Otto]

http://digg.com/apple/Default_iPhone_Ripped

http://punani.ws/audio/iPhone.mp3

Checkit..... somebody ripped the iPhone ringtone from the Mac World demo already. Just put it on my RAZR. Nice.
Sounds kinda crappy to me.

[pgogborn]

I love Apple in general, but...Is the iPhone going straight down the drain? You betcha!
Armando Iannucci
Sunday January 14, 2007
The Observer (http://www.observer.co.uk/)

Presentation by Steve Jobs of new iPhone in front of 10,000 screaming technology experts.

Lights go down, roof retracts to lower Mr Jobs, seen reclining on a large, green velvet Victorian chaise longue suspended on wires. Audience whoops and hollers. Chaise longue touches the stage floor. Mr Jobs gets off, stands up and shouts: 'Compress chaise longue!' At this point, the chaise longue flips in on itself many times to fold into a small, sleek, oblong, hand-held device, which Mr Jobs picks up.

Jobs 'Hellooooo technology experts!'

Crowd 'Hellooo King of Glory!'

Jobs 'Tonight, we make history as I present to you the new Apple iPhone. [Audience cheers.] The iPhone, as you have just seen, can fold out into a chaise longue. [Audience screams.] Yes, my friends, the days of not being able to recline on your cellphone are over! [Audience stands up and sings 'Thank you, Lord God, for your gracious gifts' to the tune of 'She'll be Coming Round the Mountain When She Comes'.]

'So now let me take you through the superb array of functions the iPhone can bring into your life. First, enhanced picture quality. I simply point my little finger at this icon here and a screen appears on the phone. Now, what's this? [Grainy, green video footage appears on the phone and is projected on to a large screen at the front of the hall.] Why, it's the notorious video-phoned footage of Saddam Hussein's hanging. This footage sent shockwaves throughout the world. Many people were appalled by what they saw. I was appalled. [Meaningful pause]. I was appalled at the poor picture quality of the images! [Audience laughter, which lasts for three minutes.]

'Surely, in this day and age, it must be possible to come up with a cellphone that can film the execution of vicious heads of state in a resolution greater than 1,200 x 800 pixels! A death-cell phone, if you will! [The laughter causes cracks in the roof.]

'See here, I simply wink at this icon at the bottom and the Saddam footage is now 10 times clearer. [On the large screen, the mushy footage has now been transformed into high-resolution images of a man with spit in his beard having his neck snapped.] You can see the angle! [Audience yelps like ruptured wolves.]
full riff (http://observer.guardian.co.uk/7days/story/0,,1989878,00.html)

/me ducks and dives for cover :D

[betamax]

Yes, but that's my point... People will say that sort of thing *everywhere*, only they will substitute whatever their favorite company is instead of Verizon.

But never have I seen any actual proof of any of it. Coverage maps show that they are actually much the same. All people have to go on is their own limited experiences, and generally they limit their cell phone usage to a small number of places. Their home. Their work. Maybe a few others. They don't really know what coverage is like for other people.

In my experience, Verizon works well where _I_ need it to work. Works great around Vegas. Surprisingly, it works very well up at our cabin in Brianhead, UT. We have had friends up there with other carriers who couldn't get a signal and we had full bars with Verizon. Even in the back country, we get a strong signal. My wife has called me several times telling me she's run out of gas. That's a big selling point for me. (Why she can't check the gas tank of the go kart before she leaves is beyond me.)

OTOH, I can't get a signal at my parent's house in LA (Northridge, now Porter Ranch area). Works fine in other parts of LA, but I can't get more than 1 bar. They're up in the hills, and I suspect there is a big chunk of dirt directly between their house and the nearest tower.

[JYoung]

As I recall Apple is looking for a market share of 1% for its phone which I suppose is doable but I reckon when it comes to the UK not having 3G is putting itself at a considerable disadvantage.

Even so I would be tempted (or at least ask Santa Claus) except it will be operating in a "walled garden" (well, in the US at least) - I do not see that being in keeping with the philosophy of Apple type peeps.

Form what I've been reading, by the time the phone gets to the UK, it's supposed to have 3G. The first ones in the US won't though.



OTOH, I can't get a signal at my parent's house in LA (Northridge, now Porter Ranch area). Works fine in other parts of LA, but I can't get more than 1 bar. They're up in the hills, and I suspect there is a big chunk of dirt directly between their house and the nearest tower.

I get good Verizon coverage in the Porter Ranch area. (Both my parents and my brother live there).
For a long time, Verizon was the only company that had coverage there but Cingular is starting to catch up. (I think my brother can now get reception in two corners of his house as opposed to one ;) )
The extreme NW corner of Porter Ranch is spotty as I barely get reception there but that's literally the edge of the city right now.

[Fleegle]

Form what I've been reading, by the time the phone gets to the UK, it's supposed to have 3G. The first ones in the US won't though.


As alwas, it never pays to be an early adopter.

[pgogborn]

Some iPhones will be more equal than others.Published: Feb. 21, 2007 at 9:42 PM
Apple, Cisco settle iPhone dispute
SAN JOSE, Calif., Feb. 21 (UPI)

...The agreement lets Apple and Cisco both use the iPhone trademark on their products globally...Each side will dismiss any pending actions regarding the trademark...Cisco and Apple will also explore opportunities for "interoperability" between the companies' products in the areas of security, and consumer and business communications >
http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Business/NHL_St_Louis_5_Columbus_4_SO/20070221-093109-5685r/ (http://www.upi.com/NewsTrack/Business/NHL_St_Louis_5_Columbus_4_SO/20070221-093109-5685r/)

[scoblitz]

http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/apple_hard_at_work_making

...."When the second-generation iPhone comes out this fall, we want iPhone users to feel not just jealous, but downright foolish for owning such laughably primitive technology."

I just love The Onion :)

[Philosofy]

I just played with my first one today at the AT&T store. Its not ready for me, yet. I have over 2,200 contacts in my database, and, frankly, I can't remember them all. I need the ability to sort on company or by last name. The iPhone only lets me sort by last name.

[Otto]

Friend of mine got one, and I played with it. It's neat, but slow unless it has Wifi in range. Fortunately, I have Wifi around me 80% of the time, so it surfed the web pretty well.

The interface is nice. I didn't like the (lack of) functionality. The things I wanted it to do, it don't do. I expect some of this will be software updated later, but most of my issues are hardware, which means wait for version 2.0 or 3.0.

Oh, and I detest the actual phone dialing on it. It only reinforces my hatred of touchscreens. The touchscreen works very well for navigation and browsing and such, but is crap for what I consider actual normal usage.